Posted by: aediculaantinoi | July 27, 2012

Vanity…or, Necessity?

In the most recent Pagan Hangout on Patheos.com, Star Foster and Cara Schulz talked very briefly about “The Future of Pagan Publishing.” I wish I could get the necessary equipment together to take part in one of those at some stage…that would have been a good one to have done, for a variety of reasons.

One of the phrases that Star used several times, though, and which wasn’t ever elaborated upon, qualified, defined, or discussed between Star and Cara was “the vanity presses” in pagan publishing. And, to be honest, this had me shaking my head every time I heard it. Let me explain why.

As a (professional–literally!) researcher into a variety of topics, I’ve encountered more than one respected author, poet, or other literary figure who wrote between 1850 and 1950 and had their work “privately published,” so that it is almost impossible to lay hands on a copy now (outside of the British Library, for example!), but the works concerned and the authors in question have often been very important indeed. And, some of them have been pagan, or at least have had an influence on modern paganism.

But, would we look at them, see that their work was “privately published,” and then say, “Aleister Crowley was a vanity press author.” (Okay, maybe he’s a bad example…he certainly was vain, but that’s not the issue here!) The reality is, with occultism, magic, polytheism, and paganism, then as much as now, many “mainstream” and “respectable” publishers wouldn’t have touched such writings with a thirty-foot cattle prod. If various enterprising authors simply went “Well, since no one will publish this, I guess I’m finished” and gave up, and didn’t take the initiative to get their work published privately and distributed to various people, we wouldn’t even know they existed now in many cases.

Speaking from my own viewpoint and from relatively extensive experience, I can say the following. No matter what might have been negotiated with Llewellyn or Weiser (or perhaps even Inner Traditions), there was no way that any of the books I’ve published with The Red Lotus Library would have been done the way they were with those companies, if they had been done at all. The cultus of Antinous and the writings of a person dedicated to him are a niche within a niche within a niche as far as modern polytheism goes, and thus as a potential good seller, or even okay seller to a major publisher, would have rated at next-to-zero, most likely. If I had tried to gear these books toward what such mainstream publishers might prefer, we’d end up with “Antinoan Wicca,” and, honestly, that notion somewhat nauseates me–not because Wicca is in any way a bad thing, but because the notion that anything new and marketable has to come in a Wicca-wrapped basket in order to be palatable to modern pagans is a notion that I’d rather not buy into nor feed.

Further, I also know from other experiences, and just from reading their books, that Llewellyn is not the best publisher when it comes to fact-checking or proofreading (though no one is perfect on the latter, including myself), and they often make changes to things without talking it over with the writer at all, often in egregious fashion. Certainly, there are good Llewellyn books out there by authors like Brandy Williams, Rachel Pollack, and Patrick Dunn, but there is an awful lot of garbage as well…And Weiser, being the other big name on the block, is often not much better in certain respects (with no offense to Orion Foxwood, T. Thorn Coyle, and other Weiser authors). It’s rather improbable to expect editors at those publishers to know a huge variety of subjects well enough that they can spot bullshit whenever it emerges, or to have a team of fact-checkers looking things over whenever they come up as a matter of course–many (academic!) publishers these days don’t even proofread manuscripts, and I know this from direct personal experience with them, so why should we expect that “real” and “respectable” occult publishers would do that either?

I know that many other modern pagan and polytheist authors, who are producing really good work, are doing so through their own publication labels and via the extreme convenience of print-on-demand technology. Sannion’s Nysa Press is one such example; Raven Kaldera started Asphodel Press, which also publishes a great deal of Galina Krasskova’s work, and they’re doing some excellent work; and Dver recently put out Dwelling on the Threshold without any publisher named in it at all, and that has not made the work any less valuable or of a lesser quality.

The reality is that occult, magic, pagan, and polytheist authors have had to get creative, and have had to make their own go of things more often than not in order to get their work out there and to a wider audience at all. No, most of them can’t just put out a book or two (or even twenty) and simply sit back and wait for the money to roll in; but, likewise, not putting anything out, or watering it down and compromising their own standards in order to fit the preferred models of larger publishers has not been seen as a good option either. So, via Sam Webster we have Concrescent Press; because of Taylor Ellwood’s first book, Pop Culture Magick, Immanion Press opened its nonfiction imprint, Megalithica Books, which has gone on to have a rather large and impressive catalogue; and, not unlike Asphodel Press, that puts out a lot of devotional volumes, Bibliotheca Alexandrina has emerged likewise to publish several anthology volumes a year of devotional work, as well as occasional single-author volumes as well. O Books has published the work of a number of different authors as well, including Brendan Meyers, which is worthwhile. And, need I rave further about Scarlet Imprint and the phenomenally beautiful physical books that they produce because they want to and can? This list of publishers of modern pagan, occult, magic, and polytheist material is not by any means exhaustive or comprehensive, it’s just a small flavor of a few groups I’m aware of or have in some manner worked with or explored into further than others.

If HarperOne or HarperSanFrancisco won’t take something, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad, it probably just means that Buddhists and other people of a more New Age bent might not find it palatable. That doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile work, however, at least for some potential readers. There’s a huge amount of drivel that is produced on a regular basis by many mainstream publishers of all sorts; just because those publishers are “respectable” and don’t do print-on-demand (which is, let’s face it, a lot more environmentally friendly than traditional publishing, as well as more lucrative for the authors a lot of the time) doesn’t guarantee the material they produce is good or worthwhile, in fiction, academia, or pagan and polytheist, magic and occult, or other spirituality and religion-related topics.

So, while I guess we’ll never know for sure what the content of the discussion of “the vanity presses” would have been, I’d suggest in the meantime abandoning that phrase. Print-on-demand is print-on-demand; and, it’s not often vanity that pushes people to put out their materials in this fashion (although some, admittedly, do, and you can tell when that’s the case rather immediately!), it’s more like necessity–that may be the only way the material will get out, and it’s more important to have it out than to have the imprimatur, such as it would be, of some major and “respectable” professional publisher of some renown upon it.


Responses

  1. Well I’m sure you can guess how I feel about this topic. :)

    I remember, when I was long ago married to a writer who was looking into publishing his poetry, reading through Writer’s Market and learning about “vanity presses,” which obviously weren’t given much respect, and may not have deserved it back then anyway. That was pre-2000. A *lot* has changed since then. Sure, print-on-demand means that anything can get published, and a lot of crap does for sure, but it also means that really quality content (and even quality design, layout, editing, etc.) can make it through, without the support of a larger publisher, especially on niche subjects. I don’t think anyone in the publishing industry is unaware of how quickly the old model is becoming antiquated. The big publishers can only afford to pick up (and promote, which is key) what will surely sell to the largest audience. Meanwhile, POD and e-books are proliferating without aid of their services. And I bet many of their authors are making more money (certainly, more per book sold) than they would under a publishing contract.

    I am a big control-freak about my writing, like anything else I create. I would have no interest in watering it down or changing it at all to suit the whims of a publisher. Not that my topics would warrant a major publishing house’s involvement anyway! I like that I can choose everything from the font to the cover image for my books. And since I’d be doing all the legwork in promotion anyway were I to be affiliated with a publisher (just ask my stepmother, whose business is teaching published authors the art of self-promotion), I might as well be promoting a product I fully stand behind.

  2. Maybe we can also distinguish between the more print on demand houses (which are a lot of the modern polytheist publishers) and the classical vanity publishers, to whom one would pay a lot of money to put out their work under the ruse that it will become a mega-hit.
    Personally, I love all the smaller publishers coming up. There is also Avalonia Press, who do AMAZING books on Hekate, among others.

  3. Take into account I am sick and should have canceled that hangout. Vanity press is a bad term, but it’s what popped into my head.

  4. Consider the source, my friend. When “pagan media” pundits actually start reporting on stories outside their social network and stop schilling for corporations then maybe people will take what they have to say seriously. The work being put out by Asphodel, Avalonia, Immanion, Scarlet Imprint, Red Lotus, Bibliotheca Alexandrina and the like is important, interesting and for the most part of professional quality. I have a hunch it will be remembered long after the majority of Llewellyn’s catalogue is forgot. It’s not surprising that certain people are dismissive of that output — it’s the complete opposite of what they represent.

    • None of those are vanity presses. They are New Media Publishers.

      • And their work is largely ignored by the pagan media, so-called. In the last year alone I can think of six or seven books that were released on the topic of polytheology — some of them truly breaking new ground in that field — and they didn’t get so much as a blip of coverage. Compare that to what did.

      • Thank you for making that distinction! It’s a good one, and I shall remember it!

  5. In the real world, people send out press releases. They do marketing campaigns. They don’t assume journalists or bloggers or pundits spend their free time and money chasing after authors and publishers. I haven’t received a single notice of a book being published by any of theses presses over the past year. I only happen to catch it via social media. Having a poverty-level income I buy few books, so half of the very few reviews I do are of books provided to me. If these presses want more reviews they need to issue press releases and offer locked pdf galleys to Pagan media. It’s really very simple.

    • I do agree with you there. A lot of these small, independent publishers are shooting themselves in the foot. They’re putting out really important, cutting edge stuff but don’t know the first thing about marketing and promotion, which is really a shame because in the digital age it’s so much easier to get the word out. But I also think that the pagan media, so-called, shouldn’t be let off the hook. A couple of those books generated a lot of buzz in certain segments of the population and yet were completely ignored. This poses the question: what is the purpose of pagan media? Is it to report on what’s going on in the community? In which case, I’m sorry, but a reporter does actually have the obligation to get out there and see what’s happening instead of relying solely on Facebook and a small network of self-referential blogs.

      • Then pay the reporter. If you want them to do more, pay them. Because most are doing their media work on a part time volunteer basis, and those who receive financial support can barely buy groceries. If you want more from them then pay them.

      • To put on my pedant hat for a mo, it’s all “pagan media”; there is news and information media (usualling in the form of blogs, magazines, podcasting, radio, etc…) and there is artistic and entertainment media (novels, music, film, etc…). You’ve penned several books, you are a part of informative pagan media. Star writes for patheos, she’s a part of journalistic pagan media. OK, pedant hat off and on its hook for now. Carry on.

    • With all respect for the great work you do, Star, that’s not true. I’ve told you about the first two books that I’ve had out in the last year (Devotio Antinoo and All-Soul,, &c.), and offered PDFs of them to review to you. You declined and said maybe later (and I understood given that you had a lot on your plate at the time). I’ve asked multiple people to read and review All-Soul, and have supplied free PDF copies of it to all of them…and only one thus far has. (I still have hope for some of the others or the more recent ones, but still…) One can only do so much at the end of the day while other things–like making enough of a living to keep a roof over one’s head, etc.–are issues.

      • Actually I told you I would be happy to review Devotio Antinoo, and apparently it fell off my radar as that was during my move. I apologize. I’ll put it at the top of my list of priorities. I get busy. Sometimes I need reminders.

      • I sit corrected! ;)

        No worries–let me know when is a good time for you. (Is it ever a good time for a 500-ish page book? You could do one of the shorter ones instead, if you like…)

    • I generally agree. When I briefly worked on one of the smallest subculture magazines to produce a single issue, those desiring coverage and reviews knew it was up to one of two things: if they could send me a book or record for review, or whether or not it was already a part of my private collection. Those who provided the staff with material were more likely to get their most recent material reviewed. Those in journalistic media are no more or less creative than those of artistic and informative media (as one who has worked in both, i feel i can say this with confidence) and as such, tend NOT to roll around in a big vat of gold coins before they go to bed every night. Relying on journos to obtain thei own copies of media for review results in little press coverage. While bigger-budgeted magazines and webzines (which is essentially the function of big blogging sites, like Patheos) may have a budget for their writers to review books and film, ultimately most reviews still come from the promotional budgets of publishers.

  6. When they’ve demonstrated that they’re worth it, I’ll gladly do so. With the exception of Jason — who deserves mad props for his tireless effort, even if I don’t always agree with his views and the direction he’s taking his media empire — however, I haven’t seen much of value from the rest of pagan media, so-called. Start reporting on things relevant to my corner of the community, and I’ll start caring about what you’re doing.

    • Good. Start reporting on it yourself. I understand The Juggler is always looking for new culture writers and there is no Oregon PNC bureau! Get busy making the change you wish to see in the world!

      • I agree that they should be paid, and should at the least have donation buttons available for those able/inclined to help out. But I also recognize that most of us writing (as journalists or just as bloggers) don’t get paid, we just write what we love. And that’s fine. But if one is purporting to be a “pagan journalist” and cover the whole of paganism, but one is really just covering the small section one knows personally, that’s a problem. People should be upfront about where they get their news, and what segments they really care about.

      • Who is it you have a problem with? Name names. Every journalist has their specific areas of expertise. Every journalist has their local community. If you have a problem with a specific person, then tell them. Vagueness helps no one.

      • I know I’ve been highly critical throughout this exchange, but I think some good stuff has come out of this. And your last point is a really important one to be raised. I think there has to be more participation and exchange going on here. There is this perception that pagan media (and I’ll drop the “so-called” bit — it’s kind of dickish, even for me) represents a clique that only reports on its own … but how many have actually reached out to you guys or tried to break into it themselves? So I think we could make more of an effort to reach out to you guys and let you know what’s going on in our segment of the population, especially when it involves important things like new books, festivals, controversies, etc. But I also think that we might be more interested in doing that if we saw more of an effort on your part to reach out to us, to show an interest without having to beg for it, in what we’re doing and dealing with. It doesn’t have to be a Catch-22 impasse if both sides would work at it.

        And, while I appreciate the offer, I must again respectfully decline. I am a very bad and very dangerous man. You do not want to be associated with me in any meaningful way. :D

      • Most people who reach out don’t actually write. Interest is high, but those who put in the work are few.

      • And, btw, what’s going on in our “corner of the community” has little to do with what’s going on in Oregon (as per your suggestion to start an Oregon PNC bureau). It’s more about the parts of the polytheistic communities we are in. And both Sannion and I do spread the word about these things on our own blogs. But we are not setting ourselves up as journalists/media. The answer to a criticism of what other people are *themselves purporting to do* should not always be “well, do it yourself then.” (And writing for the Juggler would require one to actually care about and engage in pop culture, not to mention thinking it was relevant to paganism. You wouldn’t know it to see some people’s conceptions of their fellow pagans, but not all of us do.)

      • So you are offering no solutions? There are polytheists involved in various parts of Pagan media. If people from your clique aren’t volunteering or engaging with the whole, that isn’t the problem of the whole.

      • First of all, I don’t really have a “clique” in that I have no group, no social circle, and know very few like-minded polytheists. But what I do have is an RSS feed. I read a lot of blogs. And now and then, I go searching for new blogs I haven’t read yet. I also read some of the books put out by fellow polytheists (mostly self-published). I am merely suggesting that some of the pagan media could do with a bit more broad reading list. Explore some corners of the pagan blogosphere that aren’t on Patheos or Facebook, that aren’t people they met at the last pagan festival, that might present new ideas, practices, etc.

        And yes, I agree it would also help if those of us not represented made more of an effort to engage with the pagan media. But it’s hard when you already feel unwelcome, unrecognized, unvalued.

        (I suspect, honestly, that some of this argument is rather pointless. Any group gets big enough, there starts being a mainstream, the cool kids, the lowest common denominator, and then there are a ton of smaller groups and loners who don’t fit in for whatever reason and have to strike out on their own. That’s always how it goes, and paganism looks to be no different. Which is why I generally don’t consider myself part of it at all.)

      • I follow hundreds of blogs, including yours and Sannions.

        I actually invited Sannion to write for Patheos a long time ago, hardly a gesture to make him feel unwelcome. He declined. So I have reached out, and not just to him, but to many bloggers.

        If you want people to feel welcome and engage with you, sometimes you have to make the first step.

      • @Sannion: “You do not want to be associated with me in any meaningful way.”

        And that’s why I’m glad that the extent of our relationship is based on meaningless blogging equivalencies of hand-jobs.

  7. Even though my efforts at recommending stories and passing on tips hasn’t met with much success in the past (it’s possible the e-mail address I’ve got for Jason is out of date and the comments I’ve left got lost in the shuffle, as his posts do generate a lot of discussion) I’ll take you at your word, Star, and make more of an effort to bring interesting happenings to your attention. Though I’m not comfortable with direct affiliation (and neither should anyone else!) I don’t mind acting as a liaison between the fringe and mainstream. If you could send your contact info to me at sannion at gmail dot com I’d be most appreciative. And also, I’d be willing to make available PDFs of my books for review if that’s something you or any of your associates would be interested in.

    • It’s sfoster@patheos.com.

      Better yet, I could give you access to Agora and you could post link round-ups to things you find interesting.

      I’ll review a book, but not books. So pick one and I will be happy to review it. I cannot promise a timeframe though.

      • It’s a very tempting offer, but I still have some reservations. Let me think it over some and I’ll get back to you.

      • So, after much reflection and a little divination I’ve decided I’m going to take a pass on your very generous offer. Thanks for the consideration and, ya know, it’s not a bad idea — perhaps you can get someone else to do it?

      • Someone else to put links to your blog and other blogs you find interesting? I doubt it. Your issue was that we’re not paying attention to issues important to you, and last I checked you were only one person.

    • out of curiosity, would you be willing the share the titles of these more recently released polytheology books?

      • I don’t know what other folks’ lists might include, but I’d put Raven Kaldera’s Dealing with Deities on it–it’s not perfect by any means, but it’s not bad.

      • Here’s a good list:

        http://krasskova.weebly.com/poly-theology-useful-texts.html

        There are a couple more that came out early in the year, perhaps even last year, that I can’t recall at the moment … wish I had kept better track of them.

  8. How odd/interesting that it remains such a big deal among pagan authors. It’s becoming a pretty much accepted fact in fiction, and “vanity press” is almost extinct as a term in favor of “print on demand.”

  9. Quoth Star:

    Someone else to put links to your blog and other blogs you find interesting? I doubt it. Your issue was that we’re not paying attention to issues important to you, and last I checked you were only one person.

    Hey, that’s an even better idea! Here I had been thinking of having someone at Agora do a weekly round-up of links to things going on in the wider community, with or without commentary. Issues relevant to recon traditions like Hellenismos, Kemeticism, Heathenry, non- and dual-trad folks, spirit-workers and the like. Segments of the population that so far haven’t been terribly well represented. But yes, you should devote a whole section to reposting the stupendous material I produce for House of Vines. More to the point you should have three or four people whose sole job it is to analyze and discuss my writings. I like the way you think, lady-editor!

  10. [...] an exchange with Star Foster, Pagan Media Specialist extraordinaire, it came out that she would like to have [...]


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